I don't think that is an accurate accusation.

What is this in reference to? I obviously don't follow this as closely as you do, but I hadn't heard her say anything racist.

One of Clinton's supporters, and a member of her finance committee, stated on a few occasions that if Barack Obama wasn't black, he wouldn't be a presidential candidate of any import. Her exact words were that he was "very lucky to be who he was" in reference to his race. She made the exact same comments about Jesse Jackson during his presidential bid.

She was allowed to remain with the Clinton campaign for nearly two weeks after these comments.

I disagree with Nathan because I don't think that this was a team decision, but rather the actions of an individual.

Keith Olberman gave an interesting Edward R. Murrow-esque editorial on this today.

Is it any worse than everybody else playing the sex card on Hilary?

I mean, she is a chick, right?

Let's be clear, there is a pattern emerging in Hillary Clinton's campaign. First Former President Bill Clinton implied that Barack Obama's South Carolina win didn't really matter because even Jesse Jackson had won there. The racial overtone of the comment was hard to miss. Then an unnamed Clinton Staffer leaked a photo of Obama in Somali garb to the Drudge Report. Hillary herself, in a TV interview, was vague in her response to the question of Obama's faith. She stated that Senator Obama was not a Muslim "as far as I know". Again, the implication is difficult to miss. Clinton's ad team "accidentally" darkened the color of Obama's skin in one of their advertisements. Then, Hillary flack Geraldine Ferraro made the insane, obscene, and absurd statement that Obama wouldn't be a serious contender were he not black. Ms. Ferraro has repeatedly refused to apologize for her bigoted statement. In fact, she has even tried to claim that she is the victim and being attacked because of her race. Senator Clinton has refused to renounce and reject these statements. In fact, in fifteen days she has failed to remove Former Representative Ferraro from her campaign. Finally, Ferraro did resign, but did so with a memo that seems to suggest that she will continue to make these hateful claims on her own. It's hard to escape. I am so pissed at this.

As for the "chick" card: Only hillary's team has played it. When she got her ass handed to her in a debate her flacks cried foul, saying that the big bad men were teaming up on the poor woman. No candidate has called her gender into question or suggested that she is only a viable candidate due to her sex.

Please remember, I am a fervant supporter of Obama's candidacy, and have been before "Obamamania".



Quote Nathan



I don't believe that he implied that the win didn't matter. I believe he implied that he wasn't surprised that a black candidate drew a large majority of the black vote, since he'd seen the same thing happen during Jackson's candidacy. To be honest, I wasn't either.



Quote Nathan Tyree



Unconfirmed. It's beside the point anyay, since this is unrelated to the race issue we were discussing.



Quote Nathan



I agree, this was an obvious attempt by Clinton to appear to be attempting to discredit the Muslim rumors, while at the same time leaving room for doubt. However it is, again, unrelated to race.



Quote Nathan



So in this instance their belief or implication was that Obama's race was a detriment to his campaign?



Quote Nathan



A obviously racist comment. While I can see the factual nugget buried deep within the statement (more on this in a moment), on it's surface, and as it was phrased, it discredited his entire candidacy and attributed his success to his race alone.



The first point that goes against your argument that this is part of a planned pattern in Clinton's campaign is that, in this case, it is an obvious contrast to the previous perceived implication that Obama's race was a negative trait. Now the statement implies that his race is his main positive trait. These are contrary to each other and a cooridinated smear would stay on message.



The nugget of truth in Feraro's comment is that Obama's race has played a positive role in his candidacy, after initially being a negative. He has had to fight his way to this position harder than any of his competitors (Clinton's candidacy has been laid at her feet). Now, however, his race is helping him pull a lot of minority voters that have traditionally had a love affair with the Clinton's.



Is he better on the issues? You bet! Has his race helped him to be heard? Absolutely.



If the same man had come in a different physical package would he still be where he is? The idealist in me hopes so, but the realist in me has doubts.



[quote="No candidate has called her gender into question or suggested that she is only a viable candidate due to her sex."]



But, to be sure we are staying on equal footing, members of the Obama campaign have. However, the fact that her husband is a former president is a much better and easier explanation for her current position, and one that both Obama and his campaign use freely (and rightfully so).

The Drudge report thing is, as you say, unconfirmed. And yet... It's likely true. As for it being unrelated, you are off base if you think smears related to Ethnicity, Race and Religion are not interconnected. It seems obvious that the attempts to tie him to Islam are deeply rooted in the same call to xenophobia that leads some to attack the man's race.The simple fact is that we as primates tend toward tribalism. Our party should be above using that as a weapon.

"as far as I know"

See above.

As for the darkening of his skin: yes, they think it is a detriment. If you genuinely believe that team Hillary buys the Ferraro bullshit that Obama is kicking her ass because he's black, then you're buying a bill of goods. Ferraro (and Penn, and Clinton) know that the man's race has been the biggest obstacle to his rise. Yet, they publicly say otherwise- why? Easy answer, low income whites with a low level of education have been taught by Rush Limbaugh that they would have better jobs if the government would just stop giving the blacks all those undesserved breaks. It's the 'reverse racism' crap that is so popular among white power groups. Ferraro wants angry white men to blame anyone with dark skin for their inability to succeed. This is, to be sure, not a part of the kitchen sink. This is laser precision. It is aimed directly at that part of PA between Pittsburgh and Philly (what Carville calls "white alabama"), and it may well work.

"a cooridinated smear would stay on message"

Well, if Penn taught Hill anything it was that staying on message is less important than touching every base. Still, though, it is on message if the message is "black guys shouldn't be president and besides, they just wanna give it to him 'cuz he's black- not because he deserves it; it's all just reverse racism".

"Now, however, his race is helping him pull a lot of minority voters that have traditionally had a love affair with the Clinton's."

There's no evidence that his race delivered those votes. In fact, before his surprise win in Iowa, all polls of minorities showed Obama losing big to HRC. He earned those votes with his ideas and the power of his oratory and his ability to win.

"But, to be sure we are staying on equal footing, members of the Obama campaign have."

I have not seen this. Show me, please.

"As for it being unrelated, you are off base if you think smears related to Ethnicity, Race and Religion are not interconnected."



I didn't say they weren't interconnected, I said it was unrelated to the conversation we were having. You were accusing the Clinton team of racism, and are citing instances of religious ambiguity in support of that claim. I don't feel like being drawn into a larger argument about "tribalism".



"There's no evidence that his race delivered those votes. In fact, before his surprise win in Iowa, all polls of minorities showed Obama losing big to HRC. He earned those votes with his ideas and the power of his oratory and his ability to win."



I didn't say his race delivered those votes. I said it was helping. I also said it was helping "now", not back in January. I specifically stated that his race had made it more difficult previously.



"I have not seen this. Show me, please."



Why? I have no motivation to.



I'd like to remind you that I was talking about my distaste for Clinton back when you were talking about her inevitable run against Guliani. I have no motivation to defend her campaign or degrade Obama's. The points made above are for your benefit alone. If you don't take me at my word you are capable of your own research.

I support Obama because he is black. When it comes down to dealing with other countries, what is Hillary going to whip out and compare? her clit? I'm sure however large Hillary's clit is, it won't measure up to black snake Obama whips out. Hear that North Korea? China?

he he he

David,

all fair points.

Terry,

If HRC whips out her clit, be careful. That thing is 16 inches long and has a poisonous barb on the end like a Platypus' foot.

Half woman. Half platypus. All bitch.